February 26, 2008
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Education
I was having a conversation with Ktandie about education. Here is part of a comment she made to me: “See– it seems as if you have that common perception that academia is the only suitable route.”
My dad stopped going to school after he was kicked out in high school and my mom had to drop out of school her senior year. My dad later took the GED test. My mom finished her high school by taking night classes when she was around 30. My parents did not think going to college was important.
At one point or another in my childhood, I began to think the only route to success in life was to go to college. My oldest son struggles in school. I have sent that message on to my kids telling them that a college education and graduate school will open up more opportunities for them.
I know people who have done very well that have not gone to college. But most of my friends who have an education are making far more money than those who have not received an education.
So there is a tension. The tension is to let your children know that an education can provide openings for them. But still recognize that maybe an education in college isn’t for everyone.
I must admit I have been telling my children they just need to go to college.
Is a parent sending the wrong message if he/she communicates that his/her child needs to go to college if he is going to have the best opportunity for success?
Comments (144)
I think it should be encouraged but not forced. College isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay.
Maybe not sending the wrong message, per se, but you might be alienating your child (alienating them from education, etc.) if you place college on a pedestal, saying that it is essential in every case, for every single person.
Not the wrong message. Just…maybe not the best one.
I have to give my parents credit because they never told me that I HAVE to go to college. They wanted me to decide what was best for me.
So I’m going to a tech school instead.
<33
I do not know.My husband has a successful greenhouse business that he started when he was 19 .He did not go to college but he works 12-15 hrs a day.
I’m not sure – Many parents tell their kids they have to go to college – they take out school loans and give it a good try, only to flunk out because it is just not right for them. Then they have debt and have to start out life that way.
I think that telling them that they have to go to college in order to be successful is sending the wrong message. I know many people, including my parents, who are quite successful without have been to college. I think you should encourage your child to find something to do that he will like. We rate success to high, or measure it poorly at lease. We think of success in terms of monetary wealth and status. And I think that is not how we should measure success. We should measure success when someone has found a career or vocation that they love and is doing it. For some, that may require going to college. For others, it may not.
@mandalou89 - *too high. poorly at *least.
College or miliary; something that could provide them new experiences and an opportunity at a better lift, then staying in the same dang small town. Course nothing wrong with that but live a little before settling down because its the only thing you know.
My dad dropped out of HS a month before he graduated because he was mad at his parents; he joined the Navy. My mom was in college but couldn’t fund it anymore and was forced to drop out. Education was VERY important in my family.
I think the best gift you can give yourself is a college education. It breaks my heart that my brother is 23 and hasn’t finished Junior College. Sometimes I think that he should just stop wasting time and learn a trade because I think he’s just going to appease my parents….But really, I honestly believe that although you can be successful without a college degree, your future is likely to be more secure and your path to success a bit more direct if you get a degree.
Not really wrong by any means but I wouldn’t hold it up as the only way to go.
Yes, because frankly it’s just not true. There are loads of college educated derelicts.
Also, I think that in the past, people (in my parents and especially my grandparents generation) were able to be more successful without a degree. I think currently, b/c a college degree is so common, employers really require it. Which is why you kind of need an advanced degree to really stand out as a job applicant. But advanced degrees are not as necessary as a B.S.
But I’m just saying that “my parents did just fine without a college degree” doesn’t mean that you will, because the job market is different now.
Bill Gates didn’t need college
No. I think that it’s just something that parents fall into saying. I’m pretty sure that I’ll say it to my kids. I’m a firm believer that education gets you far in life. However, if you start working and go far in your career without an education, who’s to say that that is wrong?
Well – I think that depends on what you define “success” as…
The key to happiness, in my opinion, is doing what you love. Sometimes that equates to financial success, sometimes not.
I don’t think that everyone should go to college – not everyone is cut
out for it, frankly. That doesn’t mean that these people can’t go to
some sort of trade school or the like. They may not make as much money
as a college-educated person, but who knows? I know that my plumber and electrician make more than I do, and I have a college degree…
I understand her argument, but it really comes down to the individual and future requirements. University is considered a ‘safe option’ to have a higher demand of slary/wage options, compaired to no higher education. However, working straight out of school in a industry and taking a education from that is also beneficial, as you gain more experience and could incur higher pay for skills.
It comes down to time, in my opinion. University cuts down the time it could take to get that high possible salary. Direct out of school work takes longer.
’nuff said…
The fact is, you have a better chance of being successful if you’re educated. Not everyone is Bill Gates, don’t forget.
neither is wrong, it’s really just a matter of what best suits your child. is he good at doing things with his hands? does he show a knack for understanding car mechanics for example? he may be better off going to a trade school that specializes in the field he’s interested in. one can make a rather decent living if they are certified in a needed trade and he’d be happier than going to college. i think that would be a happy compromise:)
My husband dropped out of school after taking 9th grade two years in a row. He is now a successful party business owner of a body shop doing cars for celebrities.
I, on the other hand, dropped out of school during my 10th grade year and received my GED a year ahead of my “graduating” class.
Neither of us went to college and we never plan on it.
College isn’t for everyone. Just because you don’t spend thousands of dollars, doesn’t mean you won’t be successful. Some people just start off making thousands instead of spending it
College is not for everyone… But I do believe that it opens up more opportunities for a person.
@PreciousOnyx - I agree with you. School is not right for everyone. I went to college and am currently working on my Master’s because it was what was right for me. In undergrad, I saw quite a number of people that were in school because their parents forced them to be and not because they wanted to be; therefore, they did horrible in school because of their lack of interest. I think parent’s need to have the foresight to see what is going to be right for their individual child’s personality, assets and needs.
Education is a good thing, and kids should be taught to value it. Higher education should be encouraged if a child is at all academically capable, but there is no “one size fits all” solution. My brother is no dummy, yet he only took a limited number of college classes and focused on joining the state highway patrol. He’s now a sergeant in the patrol. He’s also happily married with two beautiful daughters and active in his church. He’s done great for himself.
Yes, it is Dan. You’re not a bad parent for it, you’re just a little misguided. People need to do what makes them, not others happy. Thats the only true measure of success in the world. A college education can open doors, mostly in the corporate and professional sectors. But if thats not what your son wants, then there is no reason to pressure it on him. I doubt that if he’s struggling in school now, that he’ll want to spend his adult years in a system very similar to it. (Sit down, shut up, and do as we say)
In 30 years, no one is going to care about whether or not your son went to college. No one will care how much money he makes. They’ll care about his character, what he’s accomplished in his life, and how much he’s affected the lives of those around him. I’ve known this since I was 16, but I was too scared to act on it until just recently. I stayed in school because I actually listened to those around me, and somewhere in my heart I still clung to it as truth. It only delayed the inevitable, which is what you’re doing right now with your son. If hes pressured to go to college, he won’t last all that long. He’ll drop out, and probably spend a good chunk of his adult life feeling worthless because of it.
I think you should ease up off your son Dan. Don’t rule out college all together, just don’t force it on him anymore. All that time you’re investing to convince your son could go to some other more worthy cause, like say, teaching your son to be a man.
My Dad told my brother and I that he would pay for college if we would like to go. Brother said no, I said yes. Brother got training for his job and certified (he is a roofer). He makes much more money than I do. He is more financially stable than I am. Hubby didn’t go to college, wishes he had. He went to the army instead. He makes a good salary, but, he could be making more if he had a degree.
I guess what I am trying to say is you never know how successful you will be….degree or not.
I don’t think college is the only option to be successful. I’m in college and I think it SUCKS. I do very well, but I hate thinking about all the nonsense I am being taught that doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with what I want to be. Also, when I lived abroad for a year and traveled to many different countries, that is when I learned the most in all of my years of schooling. I can’t help but think of all of the REAL opportunities I have missed out on because of school.
I would encourage my children to go to college and try it out. If its not for them then they could go a different route. Today, there are so many opportunities out there!
“The trouble with school is
They always try to teach the wrong lesson
Believe me, I’ve been kicked out
Of enough of them to know
They want you to become less callow
Less shallow
But I say: why invite stress in?
Stop studying strife
And learn to live “the unexamined life”
- Dancing Through Life, from the musical, Wicked
How about sending both message to have them pick a choice.. But you can point out the negatives and the positives about each of them.. My parents kept encouraging both.. As long I’m working or learning to earn later in life to pay the bills.. I should be doing fine..
No.. just encourage your kids. If they do not kgo to college – then just encourage them in their choices and love them. Of course I realize, easier said then done. But life is paved hard and not easy.
Daniel (doubledb)
The only way is to spur your children on to college. Better if they are classically educated, too.
Not wrong at all, it’s reality.
I think that telling children that going to college is important is very good. That way they might have a hint of something to aspire to, to give them motivation to get better grades… BUT it has to be done subtly, such as saying that going to college is recommended and opens up many opportunities… Saying that college is a MUST is bad and just plain wrong, it’s not a must…
College degrees, the college “experience,” corporate “success” — all highly overrated.
Parents should ensure that children understand what it’s like today for someone who doesn’t have a college degree. My dad managed to be a high-level exec in the largest dairy company in the country (maybe in the world) – they do Horizon, Silk, Dean’s, Land O’ Lakes, etc. He never went to college. However, he worked for years to get there.
I will personally expect my children to go to college, or have some very good alternative (and reasons). This is because I want my children, if I ever have any, to be intellectually inclined, as I am. It’s alright if they have varying interests, but it would be very hard for me to raise a child who, for instance, was terrible at math and had no desire to get better. Reading and studies are such an important part of my life, and I want to share that with my kids, should I ever have any.
Though most people, particularly those who didn’t enjoy the academic part of college themselves, should explain to their children that college isn’t right for everyone (I wish some of the people at my school had realized that!!!) and talk about how it really is.
Is a parent sending the wrong message if he/she communicates that his/her child needs to go to college if he is going to have the best opportunity for success?
How suitable or how realistic option a college education is depends on family circumstances as well as the career choice of the child.
Absent specifics, I think encouraging a college education is absolutely the right thing to do. A parent hopes for the the best of his or her child. College opens the most doors, and a lot of the paths is makes avaliable are those easiest to walk.
Of course not. Several studies have shown that a college education provides financial rewards that are well worth the extra time, money, and effort. Is college for everyone? No. But I think parents should keep stressing the value of an education until their kids are old enough to decide for themselves.
College, tech school, military – all are good routes to careers or at least figuring out what you want to do with the rest of your life. It’s good to encourage your children to have a plan for life after high school. If they resist, have them get menial, dead-end, minimum wage jobs while they’re still in school. A young man I know was drifting a bit in high school – excellent student, but no real plans beyond graduation. He worked one summer at McDonald’s and knew there was no way he was going through life with that kind of job. He told me, “McDonald’s is the best argument for higher education.” He’s now working on his PhD while teaching Greek and Latin at an Ivy League university.
I have a family member who made 6 figures without a college education. But eventually, she couldn’t move up anymore without the degree. So, she ended up taking online classes. It is much harder to do that after some time off from school.
@lindadm - College degrees, the college “experience,” corporate “success” — all highly overrated.
Having a house to “live in.” Having “money.” Entirely overrated.
You don’t need to go to college to be successful, but you do need a set of marketable skills and be prepared to work hard. There are some goals that require a college education, like doctor, or lawyer, but if your goal is simply to make a lot of money, you can do that without a degree. This might mean learning a trade, such as heating and AC or plumbing, or etc.
@donatethegiftofLIFE_katie84 - I don’t think college is the only option to be successful. I’m in college and I think it SUCKS. I do very well, but I hate thinking about all the nonsense I am being taught that doesn’t have ANYTHING to do with what I want to be… I can’t help but think of all of the REAL opportunities I have missed out on because of school.
If college is so horrible, why don’t you drop out?
@huginn - Having a house to “live in.” Having “money.” Entirely overrated.
No, there is no need for a degree or corporate success for those things.
If one wants all that a degree and climbing the corporate ladder brings (including the stress and headaches), then sure, go for it. However, I do believe those goals are overrated and are not a prerequisite for happiness, fulfillment or even being a contributing member of our society.
To each, his own.
I will certainly agree that college is not for everyone.
I have an associate who has a son that is in college and he is simply not college material. He is in his second semester and in all remedial classes. What does he want to be? A Mechanical Engineer. Guess what his math score on the SAT was? In the 400′s. Lets be realistic here. More than likely, he will drop out and be stuck with tons of student loan debt.
My mother, highly educated. College educated. Advanced Degrees. What does she do for a living? She’s a crack addict.
But then its easier to get a higher paying job with a degree. And most upper managment positions require it. I worked at a firm that had an office manager with 20 years of experience. She was office manager for two years, then the powers that be realized she didnt have a degree and FIRED her.
Of course there are the success stories of those that didnt have a college education (Bill Gates for one). Those people have outstanding determination. You could also ask the question, could they have been MORE successful with a degree?
Over all, you will just have more doors opened for you with a degree and isnt your job as a parent to try to make your children’s path just a little easier than your own?
I think it should be a viable option, but not the only option. My kids have big dreams that require college. One wants to be a scientist, the other an astronaut. They can’t achieve those dreams without a college education. And I tell them that.
I’ve also told them they can join the military, preferably the Air Force (cos I just can’t handle the stress!
).
The big thing is that I never went to college. I mean, I could successfully go to college for the field I’m in — business administration — but it’s not what I want to do with my life. It’s a means to an end. (I want to open a karaoke/bakery place eventually) So why waste the money? To make more money in a field I can’t stand? Um, no.
Now, I plan on shelling out the big bucks to go to cullinary school in two years, but that’s part of my dream and worth the effort.
So, now that I’ve blogged in your blog, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with encouraging continued education, anyway kids choose to pursue it.
I agree with everyone who says that college should be encouraged, not forced. Plumbers and electricians for example, are making a killing these days because everyone and their neighbour are shipping their kids off to college, so there’s much fewer people available to do all the technical jobs that actually can provide a person with a very good living!
I think people need to think out of the box more and figure out what they want to do BEFORE applying to any college. If someone doesn’t know what he wants to do, why the hell is he in college anyway? Let him or her live a little and come back to education when he/she is ready… otherwise it’s just a waste of time, effort and money. And yes, I learned this lesson the hard way… spent 4 years studying a program I hated, and now I’m working in something completely different that I have almost no training for, and doing quite well…
@IssyMae - You’re right – it’s much harder to get that degree when you’re working full time and supporting a family. My husband got a very good job based on his military training and experience. He chipped away at college one night class at a time starting while he was still in the Navy. It took him 26 years to finally get his degree.
For career oppurtunities to be open to them they need a college education. Education is a priceless thing and at the end of it ..should make you a richer (not money wise) , individual. Seriously have you tried to have a conversation with a highschool drop-out? (I am directing that at the ones who have decided that it is better to be ignorant) – I am aware that there are many reasons that a person may not acquire or finish their education but they should at least attempt to erase ignorance.
Jobs are being outsourced like crazy- college or no college- no one is safe from this economy.
But I definitely will encourage my kids to go to college.
It’s not wrong to send the message because it’s more or less true. Sure, college isn’t for everyone so it’s important to be open to other ideas for your children. But, most definitely, college does open many more doors for people.
should i mention college education actually makes you an open minded …more rounded person – and through the process you meet and make wonderful friends and people that will enhance your intellect . Unless of course you go to parties all the time and kill the nuerons
Even if you dont know what to do with your life ….by the time you are into your 2nd semester or mabye sophmore year…you’re gonna have at least an inkling of what you like …in addition to this even if you decide to stop college then ….at least you are more rounded!
Another point that hasn’t been touched upon is that there is a statistical link between better education and better health.
http://www.npc.umich.edu/publications/policy_briefs/brief9/
no… i think it’s very important to talk about college and education to our children. i tell mine that it’s mandatory. and if you tell them now that college just isn’t for everyone… they might just give up on high school too.
for most people, education definitely opens doors. most of us are not bill gates or steve jobs or that dude who started facebook. they are exceptions rather than the rule.
@chantyshira - “If someone doesn’t know what he wants to do, why the hell is he in college anyway?”
I don’t know what I want to do after I graduate, but I am in college because I like it. Or, I would like it if it was more challenging. I like to learn, and I enjoy going to class, doing (some) assigned readings, etc.
college is the easiest way to do better in life. You don’t have to do it to be successful, but it definitely helps. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with pushing your children to go to college, because even just getting an associates degree will help them get better jobs. A lot of places require having a degree of some sort, even if that degree has nothing to do with the job they are up for.
But if I had a child with a legitimate passion for something and wanted to do it another way, I would certainly support them. But they would have to have a plan, not just “I’m not going to college. I want to be a singer!” But the fact is, even if they did go out and try to do something in a way that doesn’t include college, if for some reason it didn’t work out they could always go to school later.
The problem is a lot of kids will go out and get a job that pays like $10 an hour, and it’s more money than they’ve ever had before and they don’t see a reason to go to school. Also, it’s a hell of a lot easier to just work than to work and go to school at the same time, so they just cut out the school bit.
But without higher education you end up in entry level jobs, maybe middle management, for your entire life and are always just scraping by. You, quite often never have a job you really love, or have enough financial security to go out and do things other than just the daily grind.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s the wrong message to say a kid needs to go to college. But I think parents should be open to the idea that there are other ways, and if a child wants to try them they should be able to.
My dad never went to college, and he definitely regrets it. He has worked 30 years at Fry’s Food and Drug stores as a cashier. It’s as simple as this: If you are planning on having everything you want and need, you should probably plan on going to college. Things don’t pay for themselves. But there are always other jobs you can do without going to college. You can take a job in Law Enforcement…They pay pretty well.
I think it is more than helpful to tell your children about college, and all the wonderful opportunities it can bring you. Sure it’s expensive, but there are always loan. Everyone needs help. But I think all people should consider it.
Im not sure, the kid may take it the wrong way and then Not want to go to college..
I feel it may be up to the school or guidence counselor of the child, to tell them where the best place may be to go or what would be good for them after High school…
My Own Parents never put college out there as the route to success…
I’ll answer now and read the other comments later. More opportunities are definitely open to people with advanced degrees (beyond high school). However, some people don’t know what they want to do and going to college for extended periods in that situation is simply foolish and expensive. My son complete a year and a half with grades that are very respectable. He has been home for a year because he does not know what he wants to do. That is much wiser in my thought process. He’ll figure it out one day. Until then, I’m thrilled to have him at home again.
I have told my four they need to go to college-that’s where connections are made (not so sure about the education value myself). two did and two didn’t. the two that didn’t make more than the two that did. I guess it depends on your major and how much debt you rack up getting there.
@huginn - Because I am a SENIOR in college. I am graduating summa cum laude. Why would I drop out?? I need to complete college in order to be in the profession I want. Just because something sucks doesn’t mean you should just give up/drop out. I’m not 100% happy, but then again, college HAS brought me some amazing opportunities, as well. I’ve worked too hard to just “drop out.” I’ve spent so much time and not to mention…money! Like I said, in order to be what I want, I need to go to college. This is a small sacrifice for me. I consider myself pretty privileged, so in all actuality, I shouldn’t even be complaining!
Better to encourage it, and then let the kid make their own decision as to where they’re best suited.
In this world, however, it generally is that way.
@huginn - Having a house to “live in.” Having “money.” Entirely overrated
Yes it is. I’m glad we’re on the same page.
I have a unique situation: I was an allstar in public school– took advanced placement classes in high school, was captain of the tennis team, leader in the drama club, senior editor of the newspaper, and I got a full academic scholarship to college. when I withdrew from college to take care of my terminally ill grandparents and missed the first semester in the town I’d be stuck in… I felt so horribly guilty for not being in school. Then I got enrolled at the college where I wound up with my grandparents, they had both passed away three days apart, and I was left to start college and work two jobs to support my household because my mom lost her job due to severe greif. I struggled in school because it was not a priority and attendance was hard to keep up because I was always exhausted. College has become a major burden for me because I was working full time, and now that I lost my job I had to drop out of college because the school schedule I had was around my old job and all the places I have applied to won’t accept that since they are two major business days. College is definately not for everyone; it would be for me if I had rich parents who could afford to pay for me to have a place to live while I was going; then I could be something great, like a scientist or an auditor. All my dreams have dissolved into nothing because I can’t afford anything- my mom’s got three degrees including a master’s degree and the teaching board in Las Vegas told her she’s over qualified to teach here.
so tell me, what good is a degree if you can’t use it?
Better question Dan, I’d like to ask this; given my comment, I am seriously considering joining the military. Is this a good idea? I am looking into Air Force first… If anyone has been in the air force or would like to share how they felt about serving any branch, I would appreciate the information.
A life of learning should always be encouraged whether thats in school or not.
It is true that people can make progress without a college education but the reality is that most employers would like to see that degree. The alternative is going into a business for yourself.
Paying for college is like paying for a piece of paper.
I think that the college education can make them most monetarily successful, but not necessarily happy. I am going back to college soon, at age 21, but I know that I would not have been happy at this point in my life if i had spent the past three years in college. Also, military can bring some great benefits… especially Naval training, nuclear training like my friend Chris has, can actually net him more success after the military, than simply a college degree would.
@donatethegiftofLIFE_katie84 -Because I am a SENIOR in college. I am graduating summa cum laude. Why would I drop out??
Because in the post of question, you’ve indicated little to no happiness and value in your college education.
Just wonderin’.
@la_fairie_joyeuse (sorry, I can’t make the reply feature work) – I’m glad you’re enjoying your college years, that is so important and I’m sure you’re getting a lot out of the experience. However I just hope that whatever you’re studying enables you to find work once you graduate… college can be great, unemployment or underemployment not so much.
I have several friends who studied programs they liked (everything from art history to literature) but they didn’t have a plan for what to do afterwards, and now they’re working as baristas, clothing store retailers and phone survey people… not exactly the best reward for 4 years of university study. It almost happened to me too, and I didn’t even enjoy my program. Not saying that this is the case for everybody, but just be careful is all. I recommend having some kind of plan in place at least one year before you graduate.
Definitely not, but just as long as it’s made clear that it’s not the ONLY way to get through life. It is definitely the best way for many people, but as you stated, this does not apply to everyone.
My sister is FIGHTING her way through school. She would have done well at a two year trade school, but my parents think that college is the only way to survive in this world…
…but is the opportunity to make more money in opposition to everything you’ve taught your child until now??? If you find yourself telling your child that life (and happiness) isn’t about having the most money, then why would your only motivating factor for pushing a kid into something they may not be suited for be money???
Just a thought.
No. Very few members of my family ever went to college and most are very successful, but I think that it’s true that college does open up more opportunity for success. I just don’t think that you can say that without college there is no chance of success at all. You should give your kids both options.
@huginn - Yeah, you are right ….little to no happiness. I mean, who likes to go to classes from 9:00 am until 7:10 pm? Not me! Who likes to study for exams and write 10-page papers? Or deal with the impossible demands of college professors? Not me! I’m willing to sacrifice a few years of my life for what I ultimately want to be. I know I will be happy then. I’ve already done field study work in my degree and its what keeps me motivated to stick with college.
I’m not sure how others, however, can stick with college!
I know where you are coming from though. Why would anyone give up happiness for something? Isn’t happiness supposed to be one of the most valuable things in life? In any other case, I would never stick with anything that made me unhappy. I’ve had jobs in the past that made me unhappy … I quit them! I’ve had opportunities that made me unhappy, I dropped out of those.
So, yeah. You had the right to wonder.
Statistically speaking college graduates get paid more, now days without a college degree it’s pretty hard to get a high paying/ bill paying/ sustainable wage. Even WITH a college degree that isn’t always the case. However formal education is NOT the only reason to go to college. I think the whole experience gives you a new outlook on life, the world, etc. It opens up doors that even though they may not lead to a degree or career, are excellent experiences!
I believe that college education doesn’t necessarily ensures success. Besides, there is the whole rationale that pushing the masses towards college education makes it harder to differentiate the elites from the norms eventually.
However, i think parents should encourage their kids towards a college education till they are old and sensible enough to determine what they are best at.
Perhaps it isn’t the wrong message, but not always a clear one. A child can’t always see the possible paths ahead of them, they don’t always know themselves well enough to make judgments about their future either. As a parent it is a privilege and a duty to help them with both.
Education is important but you shouldn’t force it on them. Rather than just telling them how important college is, tell them more about why it’s so important. Perhaps also you could work on changing your perception from the only path being college to any variety of post-high school education.
My brother wasn’t exactly Mr. Acadamia, but he’s very good with his hands and has a mechanical mind. He went to a 2 year tech-school for certification in HVAC (heating ventilation and air conditioning). He worked for awhile with that line of work, but then changed his mind and wanted to do something else. He started at his next job with a higher $/hr because he had at least some school after high school.
Good luck with helping your kids find out who they are and helping them with their futures.
It is absolutely the right message. For the majority of people going to college gives them the best
opportunity for success. Someone’s going to need explain pretty clearly and show a clear opportunity cost as to why college may not be for them.
And for every Bill Gates (Harvard dropout), there’s a million people living below the poverty line.
I never really thought there was another option other than college. And my parents didn’t ever tell me to go to college either.
I’m not answering the question… I don’t think it’s a wrong message to tell your children to go to college. But I think a better way is if they are inspired by someone successful either in person or from a book, and decides for themselves.
It really depends on what they want to do in life, if they don’t know then encourage them to enroll in 101 type courses for a variety of majors so they can get a little bit of a feel for what they might want to do. If they are dead set on painting for a living then send them to art school. There are so many choices for today’s youth that don’t involve the traditional 4 year college. Let them decided what they want to do, but give them options. In the end that is all you can do, since they will do what they want anyway.
I didn’t go to college. I didn’t finish high school. It took 10 years, but I finally broke into the white collar salary range.
You know what? I FUCKING HATE MY GOOD JOB.
I’m wasting my life every day I tap at a keyboard.
Six years ago i dropped out of college to take this “good job”
Six years ago I stopped living and started drinking.
Fuck this job, and fuck not going to college. If your kids want to be trapped in life, beat it out of them, or die a lonely drunk like me.
Success stories are plentiful, on both sides of the fence. However, college is beneficial, not only because of the academics, but because of the experiences that a person has while there. (a sense of community, structure, goals, discipline, relationships, etc…) I’m going to (strongly) encourage my little guy to attend for at least one year.
I don’t think that it’s wrong to send the message that you’ve been sending, but perhaps you should have a back up plan in mind, in case they decide that college is not for them.
We “push” further education around here. My niece wants to be a cosmetologist. She is going into a college track in high school, but has her sites set on beauty school. Her sister wants to be a doctor.
I want to send my girls to Christian college for their MRS degree. ;o) I really just want them to do what God is calling them to do and my expectations don’t necessarily include a 4-year college…although it will be encouraged, but other options will be explored also.
While the person that successfully navigates their way thru college and finishes and goes on to be hired for the profession they earned does usually have better opportunities presented to them, that story of success is so rare that no one really even believes in it anymore.Growing up I was discouraged from going to college by my parents, right hte opposite from most.
And I rebelled and made a go of it anyway, by myself and compltely alone. Needless to say, I failed. I had no support and was emotionally naieve when it came to the real world.
College isn’t for everyone, but it is an easier go of it when your kids are supported and encouraged and financially able.
School loans…heh..sharks in shallow waters..we all see them lurking, ready to strike, but we think we are impervious to their attack. That surely we can navigate the waters without incident.
it depends. i know someone dropped out of college to go to technical school and makes a lot of money now.
also, nowadays high school is geared toward college, and those special needs kids who won’t make it in college get screwed over, because nobody teaches them the appropriate skills for post high school living.
I tell my three children that when your an adult you’ll need to work, so find what you love to do so you’ll love your work. That may involve college it may not. I know a guy who everytime we talk he is quoting someone else through his book knowledge from college. “Okay, I say that’s interesting, but what do you think?
It’s not necessarily wrong to send a child that message, however, it’s pretty presumptuous. Everyone has his or her view of what “success” is.
Sure, going to college has its advantages, but what about its pitfalls? No one seems to mention those. Think of all the debts many people accumulate throughout their college lives. What about those who find themselves over-qualified for the positions available nowadays?
Children should be informed about both the advantages and disadvantages of going to college and furthering their education, but in addition to that, wouldn’t it be useful to also let them know about alternative routes?
Really, there’s too much emphasis on conformity these days and following the same path that everyone else has. Today, things are different than how they were decades ago and having a college education is more expected – it’s just another prerequisite or qualification. But such is life…
In the end, the final decision should really be left up to the child and parents should respect such decisions and support their child.
Being truthful with your child is not “sending the wrong message.” Statistically speaking, people who have a degree will do better financially over the course of their life. Sure, we all know someone who skipped school and struck it rich, but they are the exception to the rule.
Everyone keeps mentioning the fact that statistically people with degrees do better financially than those without but what’s to say that is success?
Yeah. They might never feel like a success even if they are if they make it big without going to college. Plus, it’s simply not true.
First of all, I would suppose that would depend on ones definition of “success”…………….
Ask Coach Carter.
NOWADAYS I think college is more necessary than it used to be. It used to be different because there were less people. Now, you better be damn good at something if you want to be successful. If you don’t go to college and apply for a job, there’s a higher chance that someone else is applying that HAS gone to college…now who is the company going to pick? The one that didn’t go to college or the one that did?
I think it’s important that kids these days know the opportunities that lie ahead of them. It’s especially important that parents encourage their kids to get a good education and go to college… but if that’s something they don’t really want to do after high school, that’s their choice. As long as they don’t sit on their asses after the graduate high school. They should at least be working.
Yes. “Success” is such a subjective notion that one path simply can’t be for everybody. I’m in college right now and I don’t really want to be, but I lose out on my health insurance if I’m not enrolled full-time, and I don’t want to subject myself to the mercy of a given employee health program. At the same time, I’m trying to figure out what to major in and hoping it clicks.
It’s okay to tell your kids that graduating from college will increase their chances of success. It would be a lie to say otherwise, really. Still, you ought to remind them that you’ll love and accept them no matter what.
No, I think it’s honest in today’s world and it makes you a rather good parent. They could be successful without college, but to go is really the safest thing to do.
The fact that some people succeed without a college education is just indicative of how strong of a drive they usually have. And with people like this, they are going to succeed- with or without college, so there is no need telling them that they don’t need college (actually that might hurt their drive some telling them that, if they have an underdog complex motivating them).
That was just my random thought that just came to mind. I think it would be best emphasizing the importance of college to all your kids, and how many more opportunities it opens for you.
i think college should be encouraged but not manditory. i know for me i felt i had no other choice but to go to college and i am there and feel like i am wasting money, because i don’t know what i want to do with my life. if i decide to have kids, i will let them decide. only thing i feel is manditory is finishing high school.
college isn’t for everyone…
some people are forced and not encouraged,many have the education and either don’t succeed or are not very happy
I agree with Mandalou.
Encourage it, but don’t force it.
The value of a college degree is decreasing imo as more and more people go to college who shouldn’t.
If someone isn’t cut out for college, that shouldn’t serve as an excuse for them to not have plans about their future.
Why is it that so many people with perceived intelligence, seem to think that success in life is measured by the amount of money one can accumulate when in actuality, money can only give comfort. I measure success by happiness.
When I was younger, my parents wanted me to go to University. It wasn’t the way I wanted to go. I intentionally flunked school so that I could live my life my way. I haven’t got too much living left and I’ve looked back at my life recently and wondered if I should have done the architect thing or the lawyer.
Financially, I could have done better and been more successful at making money but I never would have been as happy as I’ve been. I compare my life now to the richer people of the world and know that none of them, not even Donald Trump have had the happiness in life that I’ve had. I can only count 2 failures in my life. One of them was my first marriage, the other was a bout with alcohol and drugs. I didn’t even miss the education because I learned more from reading books than I ever could have in school.
College isn’t for everyone. It should be encouraged, but not forced. I made the decision to go to college/grad school/doctoral program when I was 10.
we should encourage our youth to pursue their dreams… whether it is through education or alternative means… but either way you need to learn…
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I don’t think it is bad to point out that going to college will open doors. However, keep in mind there are people without college degrees who are insanely wealthy, and people with college degrees who are secretaries and gophers.
Not necessarily, as studies have shown that people who go to college tend to make more money than those who never do. I think, honestly, college is better for people who know what they want to pursue in life. Like me, I’m at college to be a teacher. But I need that formal training to become one. My brother knows he wants to work in marine services, so he’s looking at marine schools.
Some people though, whose parents enforce college upon them, just end up studying literature or pick a random major because they have no idea what they want to do.
I guess I feel that people should go college if they’re absolutely sure they want to pursue an interest… in order to benefit them in the future. College is an opportunity to pursue a career. It’s about networking and creating close friends. And, for some of us, living in a different city or town or state… all on your own.
I just don’t like when parents force it upon students who have no idea what they want to do in life. In that case, let them explore.. travel. If you’re willing to help pay for college, you’d be willing to let them travel right?
This is so long, i apologize. I just feel so bad for people who are forced to go to college then end up leaving after two years of not knowing what they want to do.
There are still smart, successful people who never attended college! And I completely applaud them.
I don’t think it’s necessarily sending the wrong message, because yes, it can be a good idea.
I think it’s a good idea to stress that going to school can be a very smart idea, but you should also balance that out and let them know that it’s not the best way…and if they find a career path they want that doesn’t need school, you shouldn’t force them into going.
Is a parent sending the wrong message if he/she communicates that
his/her child needs to go to college if he is going to have the best
opportunity for success?
I do think it’s the wrong message, especially if the parent is not considering, or teaching their child to consider, any other options. Unfortunatley, it’s not only parents who are pressuring kids to go to universitiese– it’s everywhere. I was in the top 3% of my high school class, and it had always been expected that I would go straight to a university. In fact, I had never even considered another option. I went, and I was completely miserable. About 2/3 of the way through my second year, I decided that exchanging a degree for more than 2 more years of unhappiness and depression just wasn’t worth it. A year later, I’m living with my fiance in the Netherlands (we’d been together since high school) and I’m working on becoming fluent in the language so I can go back to school next year to become a teacher.
I think if a person wants to succeed in life, they will. I don’t think that going to a university or college is automatically going to ensure that success. I think that parents should really sit and talk with their children, and seriously consider what sort of profession would make the child the happiest. Sometimes, kids also just need more time. I think that taking some time after high school to figure things out (of course while working somewhere) is also not such a bad option.
I would just think about the fact that if a child isn’t cut out for college, or isn’t ready, or hates it and drops out — the student loans don’t go away. I’ll be dealing with those reprocussions for years, don’t let that happen to your kids.
I think college is the best chance for some, even most people. It’s not for everyone though. I think those with a strong inclination toward a particular career should go to the best school for that career, even if it’s not an academic school. Those who don’t know should be encouraged to try some classes at a community college so they won’t get a bunch of debt. If they want to start their own business they should at least take a couple business or accounting classes. I think the important part is to get them working on something after high school other than parties or minimum wage jobs.
You ought to read some Donald Trump books. Many of the Fortune 500 companies were started by immigrants who had no education and learned the language after they got here. I’ve come to learn that hard work, dedication and committment are the keys to success, and have no plan to attend college myself.
However, if my kids decide they want a career in a field that having a college degree would open up more opportunities of success (things like, doctor, etc), I would push them into going to college. If they want to learn a trade or apprenticeship even better. But if their idea of success is the same as mine, being able to keep a roof over their head while being an awesome parent, I will support that as well.
Success is relative.
It is, but parents should realize when their kids are morons and ought to attend a trade school.
Well, my brother isnt a school person at all. Never has been. And my family is pushing him to go into the military, since college is just not an option in his future. And for me, its the total opposite and they have been pushing me to go to college forever since i have the grades and the motivation. So i guess it depends on the child.
I would probably beat my kid(s) if they didn’t finish high school at least…..if they chose not to go to college, well then I would just be disappointed and sad.
Honestly, I think it’s better to know your kids and what they are good at…foster that in them and encourage them to pursue it. Some people do not test well or struggle with academics, but they do very well at a hands-on apprenticeship. While I think it is important to have more than just a high-school diploma, vocational school or some sort of trade-school can also be very appropriate. My husband has 2 Master’s degrees and he does not make that much money because of the field he is in. More schooling doesn’t necessarily mean more money or even more opportunities, depending on what the schooling is in.
Not every field of study requires a college degree. If a person aspires to be a doctor then they do need to go to college. But if they aspire to be a plumber? (Oh, I know plenty of plumbers rolling in the greenbacks). Then they need to go to trade school.
My daughter announced she didn’t want to go to college the other day. What she wants was to have her money out of her savings account. I told her she could get it out when she moved out of the house.
my dad always struggled in school, but they all say he worked really hard. he was the only one in his family to not have a bar mitzvah because he couldn’t learn Hebrew because he worked so hard on schoolwork. I feel bad sometimes, because school is so much easier for me. he graduated high school, though, and went to college. didn’t get a degree, because he couldn’t pass anatomy & physiology – though you can’t say he didn’t try. He took that class 3 or 4 times. so he had to drop out (he was going to be a P.E. teacher). now he runs his own business, has a great family and does quite alright for not having a degree of any sort.
they’re putting a hell of a lot more pressure on their kids if they do. schools tell you from about seventh grade these days that if you don’t go to college, you won’t make as much money. they make it seem like if you don’t go to college, you’ll end up unemployed and living on the streets, when that’s not true at all. there are a lot of jobs that don’t require you to go to college that have room for advancement.
My parents have always made school – with college in particular- a top priority.
It is important for your son to have a plan, be it college, hot rod school ( like one of my best friends), or hair-dressing school, etc. some sort of trade school, or maybe even the military. Only 30% of US citizens go to college, but that doesn’t mean that planning a future isn’t necessary.
And no, Dan, you aren’t being a bad parent. You just know what your son is capable of. The fact that you are asking about it says that you care about what’s best for him.
<3
I would suggest for your kids to take a couple of community service classes while working part-time to figure out what they want to do and how to go about achieving the most success in that field. Most of us have college degrees that we don’t use and looking back, it’s such a waste of time and money. I wish I took the time out to figure myself out when I finished high school. I know a lot of people look at a degree to signal intelligence and common sense, but a person doesn’t need to go to college for that. Go to college with a purpose.
I think it should be encouraged – because believe it or not that little piece of paper means a lot in the world — many places won’t look at you if you don’t have one, no matter how much better you could do the job than someone who does have one. It makes things easier in many respects.
However, it isn’t a one size fits all concept – my hubby makes more than I do with only his certs for work where as I have a Bachelor’s and am getting ready to work on a Master’s
Bad part of college is that even though you receive higher education, there is no guarantee that you will get a job once you’re out.
I don’t think college is necessary for success…
The world is different today than it was when you or your parents grew up. Much fewer employers would hire a high school dropout than past generations. It’s almost a prerequisite for anyone who wants a professional job.
I think it’s okay IF the parents say that they are going to support them through college. I have a deal with my dad: full time student, As and Bs and he’ll pay for everything: transportation, lab fee, tuition and books. I’m not sure I would be going to school if I had to work full time and get loans in order to do that. But, I enjoy school, so it’s not much of a hardship.
well its good that the parent encourages it because college does open up more options
No. Trade school is an alternative though.
college is a choice. i have a handful of relatives who have never gone to college and they are very successful in their careers (some even went to work for a big company). although i myself would want to go the college route, i don’t think it should be forced on the individual…
As a student, I think that parents should encourage their children in whatever their reasonable desires take them.
I work in Workforce Development with young adults. Thirty years ago a 4 year college degree was the best route to a high wage/high demand position. This is no longer the case. Education is certainly a very important part of workplace success, but that does not need to mean a 4 year degree or an advanced degree. There are many, many high wage/high demand positions that can be entered with an Associates degree from a Technical College or even a Technical Diploma in some cases. Many of these occupational fields are technological or medical in nature.
Today the supply of 4-year graduates outpaces the demand. Only a quarter of students who begin college graduate and find employment that requires a 4-year degree and pays at an appropriate level for a 4-year degree.
I don’t have the data in front of me, but there are six general areas of occupations. When ranked by wages, the highest is Professional/Managerial. These are mainly positions that require advanced degrees. The next two highest wage areas both require Associates degrees or a similar level of training (trades). If I remember correctly, entry level income in these two occupational areas starts around $40,000 and can rise quite high.
The point is, outside of the lawyer/doctor/researcher group, the highest paid positions do NOT require a 4-year degree. Education is important, but what is more important is that the education is in a field that is in demand and will continue to be in demand in the future.
I’m not saying that there aren’t some occupations that require a 4 year degree. Teaching, social work, and engineering are some that come to mind right away. Even those, though can be started with Associates Degrees at community colleges. There are other ways than going straight to a 4-year (which is usually 5 or 6 years) college or university.
In addition, it is important for the student to really be ready for college before attending. Many students would benefit from a year off between high school and college to mature, gain work experience, volunteer, or travel. All of these experiences can help the student discover what it is that they really want to do with their life, which in turn will save money for who ever is footing the college bill. Students who have discovered their direction in life get more out of college and waste less time and money in college.
A great book to check out on this topic is Getting Real: Helping Teens Find Their Future by Kenneth Carter Gray. The book is almost a decade old, but is even more relevant than when it was written.
Not long ago, perhaps even a month ago, I would have thought that college is absolutely important if you want to do anything in this world. Now I have to say that college probably isn’t for everyone. I think people should value education highly, though, because it can open your mind (and various doors). In my situation, I definitely am going to college.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention some other options:
1) in fields such as accounting/other business fields, start with the associates degree and get a job earning good money. Then continue working towards a bachelors degree part time if it is something the student either wants to achieve or needs for advancement.
2) the military provides training in many occupation fields that will translate into civilian jobs after completing your service commitment (and money for further education if you desire)
3) for low income students ages 16-24 there is a no cost education and vocational training program called Job Corps that offers occupational training at many locations around the country. The offerings vary based on the center you attend. http://jobcorps.dol.gov
College isn’t for everyone. Indeed. It’s a matter of personal choice.
Having said that, I’m going to emphasize that the less education you have, the worse it is for you. I was home schooled, and what I’m doing right now is pretty much all I know how to do- read and write. Those are not big-money skills in the real world. Anything worth doing- even getting a novel published- requires some sort of degree in something.
I plan on going for my GED soon. Then maybe I can try for higher education, even if only through the Internet. I need something. Little to no education, man… not good, not good.
I have a friend who only did three years of college, and he’s currently working for an IT firm. He really enjoys his position and has no regrets on leaving school.
It’s best to encourage kids to go to college, not force them. :
It wouldn’t hurt getting a higher education. In some cases higher education do open doors however, that doesn’t guarantee you will get the job. Besides education a good job also required hard work and experience in the field. What I’m trying to say is education is not everything but, have one under your belt in case they need one to get the job interview.
I think this depends on what we value more in life. Is making as much money as possible the most important thing? Or is doing something that is fulfilling and can support your needs and that of your family?
I for one being a husband have the pressure of desiring to be the major supporter of my family and allowing my wife to not work as much or (Lord willing) when we have children not at all. At the same time I don’t want to focus solely on making more and more money because then I sacrifice time with my wife and friends… that’s a trade off I’m not willing to make.
I attempted to work through college toward a goal but school wasn’t for me. I learned early on as my parents taught me at home for most of elementary school that traditional academia isn’t always the only or even best way to learn something or do well in a vocation.
All that to say I think the proper balance is to encourage your children to do what God has put in their hearts to do and to do it well. To let them know that college is an option and may allow them to fulfill their goals better than not going but that it’s not the only option by any means.
I wouldn’t say parents are sending the wrong message saying that college is important, I just think that it would be beneficial if parents helped their kids explore other options, like trade schools or things like that, especially if the child struggles academically, but has other passions and strengths.
One of my good friends only went to college for 2 years. He makes 70,000 doing engineer work. I always thought that college was a necessity, but you can do well without it.
Education is so important, I do not think that parents are sending the wrong message by telling their kids they need to go. *shrugs*
when my kids were little, we read many biolgraphies of young genius. Amazing actually. HELPED ME!~ helped me open up to “different learners”-as is my eldest…who is very smart….but would never have made it had we not homeschooled
I guess also point of view of value not from income helps. Of course we need money. But I would really really rather have them GOOD than rich. IF one had to choose! would like both, of course.
yes. college is not for everyone. and there are always going to be “less sought after” job positions that need to be filled. what the heck would we do without garbage men, plumbers, electricians, etc?
It depends on what you mean by success. You don’t have to have a high-paying job to be happy. One of the happiest people I know is a guy who dropped out of high school.
yes yes…
huh?
yes
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with encouraging your kids to complete college – I have a problem with parents, though, that force their kids to go while putting outrageous amounts of stress on the kids. Its not the “end of the world” if kids don’t graduate top of the class. But kids, as well, should understand that there are more affluent opportunities for those that do focus on school, get their degress and find a job in the field of their choice.
That, of course is a whole other situation. So many people have had problems finding jobs in their desired field. When I worked at the mall, we got resumes in from x-ray technicians looking for jobs!
academia is a pretty safe route. it has the least risk, in my
opinion. if you discover it`s not for you, not much has been lost and
you gained knowledge.
My parents always told me that if I didn’t want to go to college I didn’t have to, but I know that they wanted me to.
It’s my second semester right now, and I’m re-considering my decision. I might change colleges or I might just not have a college career, I don’t know, but what I do know is that at the college I’m currently enrolled in, I feel that a lot of the classes I have to take for my major are simply irrelevant to said major and are really going to be a waste of my time and money. I don’t think I’ll ever bee motivated enough to do well in said classes because they don’t interest me at all, and, that being said, will indeed be a huge waste of my time and my money…
I think God will put me where ever He wants me to be, so I don’t worry about it too much. But I do believe that the education system, at least in my state, has become very inefficient. The only reason we have to take all of these stupid classes is so the university can pay the teachers, otherwise no one would take them because VERY FEW PEOPLE WANT TO! I don’t think that should be pawned off on me, I think they need to find another way to deal with that issue rather than taking up my time and money for a class that I probably won’t do well in.
Wow, I diverged quite a bit there, my bad…
God Bless,
Chris
@k_cakes - I have to disagree. It does depend on a lot of things, but valuable time and money can be lost in deciding that an education isn’t for you. In my case, I feel a lot worse because my parents are helping pay. If it were me paying for everything, I probably wouldn’t care a whole lot, but, I mean I could’ve saved my parents some money had I decided that college wasn’t for me before spending a year there…
Just my opinion
God Bless,
Chris
I don’t think that its the wrong message at all but it should the childs decision. Even though I don’t have children I see the importanceo of allowing them to make there own choices. This gives them the sense of independence and will definitely help build leadership skills.