February 26, 2008
-
Off-Campus Speech
A 13-year-old boy set up a Myspace account for his middle school principal portraying him into a child molester.
The student did not use the principal’s name but gave him the headline “Your Princeypal.” He placed the principal’s photo on the site and “identified him as the Hillside Middle School principal. He put the principal’s interest as “giving students anal” and “jacking off in my office.”
The student was suspended and then later expelled for “malicious harassment.” His parents are saying “disrespecting teachers outside of school is an age-old tradition, and one from which teachers neither need nor deserve protection…It would be naive to think that even the most popular principal is not the subject of student ridicule and parody.”
The parents want his actions to be declared “off-campus speech.” Here is the link: Link
Do you think the student should be expelled for something he did off-campus?
Comments (182)
Something must be done even if he isn’t expelled.
Yeah… He was an ass, he should except the consequences.
If it was this, then yes of course.
I’m torn on this… kids make fun of teachers, which is normal and expected, but setting up myspace profiles calling them child molesters is libel. However, it was outside of school, so he shouldn’t be expelled.
The only thing I’m clear on is that kid is a douchebag.
@hello_insanity -
I’m with you all the way on this one!
YES! If he lived in Singapore, he would have been whipped a thousand times!
-sigh- I thought it was funny.. Immaturity is for childhood. He’s thirteen years old. The most he should get is his text-messaging plan revoked.
I thought principal’s had a lot more character..
no. but there is a rule like that in my county. if something you do outside of school affects school you can be penalized for it.
I honestly don’t think so. He didn’t actually say that the principal was a child molester and only said it jokingly by speaking vicariously through the principals words. There’s no way the school could misconstrue this to not be a joke, no way ANYONE really could have misconstrued it to not be a joke.
But some schools have zero tolerance for all sorts of harassment – directed at other students, staff, whoever. But then again, this wasn’t conducted on school grounds. But once more, an expulsion for a first harassment offense?
The twists and turns!
-David
expelled? maybe too harsh but they should hold the parents responsible for punishing him.
perhaps legal action on behalf of the principal for libel but probably not expelled since it was outside of school.
the parents need their heads knocked together…hard.
and that kiddo does indeed deserve to be punished.
Expulsion is a bit harsh. Even still, his parents are stupid.
As I’ve said before (about sports, I think it was), yes. A student represents the school that he/she goes to, as well as any activities or programs that he/she is a part of within, therefor punishment is necessary for such a misrepresentation of his school program.
God Bless,
Chris
No, it was not done on school property. Yes, he used the school as part of his harassment on the Principal. It’s a touchy situation.
not expelled, possibly suspended.my school tried to do something like that to someone i know. if it’s not in school, it’s not their business. end of story.
I think he can be expelled for that.
In this case, yes. Accusing any school employee of child molesting is enough to ruin a career, doesn’t matter if it’s true or not. The principal would be quite justified to sue for libel. This isn’t the same as saying the principal is stupid or drawing horns on his picture. This is can have life-altering consequences for that man if the wrong parents see it and take it seriously.
its libel and a suggestion such as this, even if it is just based on the stupid myspace created by a bratty kid, could get the principal fired. on school grounds or off- it would have the same consequences for the principal, would it not?
this stupid kid’s story will always be attached to the principal’s name even though its probably completely untrue, thats a real problem and therefore deserves a real punishment, a stern talking to is not enough. furthermore, its almost unreasonable to expect the principal to have to continue to deal with this kid later on if he were to only be suspended for his actions, i dont think i could stay fair if he ever came back into my office afterwards, would the parents ever after say the principal was biased because of this incident even if he did try to stay fair?
@DrugInducedDuck - Yeah, agree 100%.
I don’t think portraying your principal as a child molester is an “age-old tradition.” Though, I suppose if the kid’s parents did that when they went to school, that explains a lot…
No way.
Do you think the student should be expelled for something he did off-campus?
Depends on school, district, and state rules on the books; and whether expulsion is a punishment fitting fo the breaking of those rules.
Absent educational legality issues, expulsion seems too severe a punishment for the boy’s stunt. And quite seperately, I can’t think of any reasonable argument for extending enforcement of school rules off-site.
Yes he should be. Voicing your own personal opinions good, bad or otherwise about a person is your right. Blatantly fabricating a false identity and then attributing it to another person is or should be a crime in my opinion. This is essentially an attempt of internet identity theft.
for this.. yes. bc it is something that is public and can be reached to millions. it’s defamation of character if anything and it’s wrong. especially with all the cases of teacher/student sexual relationships these days…
I think this goes beyond the normal making-fun-of-teachers. All it takes is one person to believe the suggestion that the principal’s a pedophile, and his career goes down the toilet. I think it qualifies as slander. I’m not sure if he should be expelled, but there should be some punishment. community service?
Okay, after thinking about I believe that A.) The student should not have been expelled, and B.) He should not have been punished.
The underlying assumptions from which my conclusion lies on are: i) He did not create or modify the myspace account from campus, and ii) He did not proactively spread the myspace account to the principal himself or any other school faculty members.
Arguments:
1.) Test case. If the student were any regular teenager and the principle were any regular adult, and if the teenager created the myspace account, what would happen? Not much, really. The adult certainly have within his rights to sue the student, but there are no other links to the student.
2.) Extent of school authority. Teacher and school authority ought not extend beyond school premises and school sponsored activities. A teacher can’t reasonbally give a student detention for bad behavior at home.
As mentioned in the OP, the Myspace account was created off-site. Propgation of the myspace account was accomplished off-site. The only reasonable link to school from the site is that it somehow undermines the school, the school’s faculty members, and/or the school learning environment. Does it? Fuck no.
3.) Freedom of Speech. As David mentioned up top, no one can possibly percieve the myspace account to be true or actual. Even as a 13-year old, the boy is due his freedom of speech. Sandra O’ Connor (or some other Justice) famously wrote that a student doesn’t suddenly lose his rights the moment he steps onto school premises (maybe one of you Xanga-ers have the quote handy, my google skills sucks).
So the boy has the freedom of speech. He can express his opinion any way he chooses. His parody leads to no tangible harm (no one will take the myspace account seriously). The worst that could happen is a few laughs.
@Princess_Lovely78 - for this.. yes. bc it is something that is public and can be reached to millions. it’s defamation of character if anything and it’s wrong. especially with all the cases of teacher/student sexual relationships these days…
The principal’s recourse, then, is to sue the student. I don’t see how any other actions is relevant response to the boy’s act.
A student is responsible for their actions on or off campus. Their actions are still their own, not someone else’s. And this action was taken toward a school official. Considering that the parents aren’t doing anything (except defending their child – no wonder he isn’t too responsible, if his own parents don’t hold him responsible) I think the school is entirely justified in taking action on it.
I may be old-fashioned, but I think children need to be taught responsibility for their actions. And sometimes that means accepting the consequences and learning from them.
Tricia
@enigmatic_intent - I think this goes beyond the normal making-fun-of-teachers. All it takes is one person to believe the suggestion that the principal’s a pedophile, and his career goes down the toilet. I think it qualifies as slander. I’m not sure if he should be expelled, but there should be some punishment. community service?
Hustler Magazine v. Falwell
“The Hustler parody featured a picture of Falwell, and an “interview” in which “Falwell” describes his first sexual experience as occurring “with Mom” in an outhouse while both were “drunk off our God-fearing asses on Campari.” In the spoof interview, “Falwell” goes on to say that he was so intoxicated that “Mom looked better than a Baptist whore with a $100 donation,”
Falwell sued Flynt. Supreme court ruled 8-0 and overturned lower court’s fulring in Flynt’s favor as no one could seriously believe that parody.
@randy_and_tricia - I may be old-fashioned, but I think children need to be taught responsibility for their actions. And sometimes that means accepting the consequences and learning from them.
Sure, and jurisdictionally, this teaching of responsibility is to the task of the parents. Teachers can’t just stand in arbitrarily when students misbehave at home.
Science teacher can’t give detention if the student fails to make his bed that morning. Social study teacher can’t lower the student a letter grade of the student fails to take out that trash that month.
Damn kids like that need some discipline, and his parents are stupid. Just because it’s an “old tradition” doesn’t make it alright to go do libel on the internet. What pricks.
There are consequences to everything and the sooner he learns it the better. Expulsion is better than enforcing liable laws.
I don’t think so. If I robbed a store, I wouldn’t be expelled from school because it was off campus activity. The kid should definiately be severly punished, and charges brought upon him, but I don’t think expulsion is the way to go.
Expulsion might not be considered the right thing to do. Something would have to be done though. Some sort of punishment is needed here.
Man, this one is tough. Expel him and he just has more time on the computer to pull off more dumb pranks. Really that is all that it is but then again to make accusations of child molesting against anyone in a public forum is dangerous joking or not.
Dang it, in my day the Principle would have just gone anal on him with the “Board of Education”.
@ihaveanalibi - There are consequences to everything and the sooner he learns it the better.
No there isn’t.
There are fundamental rights protected by a little piece of parchment known as the Constitution of the United States of America. There are no conceqneunces to me practicing my own religion (well, irreligion in this case). There are no concenqunces to me starting my own printing press. And there certainly isn’t any concequences for me practicing my free speech.
The only question is if tangible harm has or may come from the myspace site. The onus is on the principal to demonstrate this. I buy direshark’s argument above: No student of faculty of the school could ever take the myspace site seriously. What is the poor principal to do? Sue for hurt feelings?
I guess.. it is one thing to say to some friends that your principal is a molester in jest (or to be harmful) but another thing to create a whole site to it. I think he could be charged for slander, but I dont know if juviniles can be charged with slander against adults -at least I am not sure how the consequnces would work out. Especially if his parents did not know about it.
Daniel (doubledb)
Yes.
His parents douchebaggery = reason for the son’s douchebaggery. Plain and simple, their stupidity was bred into the kid and thus causing havoc for principal’s and school district’s everywhere.
Yes, what a jackass thing to do.
He should be lashed or something. He could have destroyed that man’s career.
i don’t think he should be expelled, but this is pretty much libel
Yes…for this case.
I think so. If school teachers can get into trouble for taking pics of themselves consuming alcohol (which is ridiculous for them to get into trouble) some kid who is trying to smear the good name of the principal should. IF a teacher or school worker of any kind has charges brought up against them, whether they were found true or not, their good name in schools is ruined forever.
yes. i can’t believe his parents tried to defend what he did.. shame on them… and can you be surprised at the disrespect when his own parents cover for him?
mine just might have killed me for doing something like that…but then… i would never do something like that.
i say bad parenting.
any legal issues involved?
Not really… unless the student is very visibly connected to the school, then there’s not much that can be done. If I myself do something “bad”, or something that goes against the “principles” of my all-girls college-prep catholic school, IN MY UNIFORM, then they can get my ass. Sorry bud. Maybe he’s just a really shitty principle. But if the action didn’t have a big HILLSIDE HIGHSCHOOL label on it, I don’t think much action can be taken.
Of course, that’s here on Guam. God only knows the kind of psycos they have State-side who would get waaay too serious about this.
He should be paddled with a big wooden board with lips on it called Sweetie Pie.
Expel him. Bad parents.
Expelled no, an apology from the boy yes.
Sure. The kid is an idiot, he should have thought about the consequences before he did that. And his parents should have taught him that libel is illegal.
It’s one thing to say something of campus but it’s a totally different thing to put malicious things up on the internet where anyone can see it. The kid should be punished by the school, whether with expelling him or something else. His parents should be embarrassed that their kid is so lame and punish him more.
Expelled, and posssibly some legal action.
It is perfectly fine to make fun of the principal. It is not fine to set up a website portraying him as a child molester. If someone set up a site for you on myspace with your picture and giving you a bad name you would probably persue legal action. I mean, potential employers, friends, family, everyone has access to myspace and they can search you by name. I have a myspace and when I went job searching I made extra sure to delete any thing that would present me as something other than a respectable, upstanding citizen because people can search you by name on their.
@paculina - You are completely right.
I don’t know if he should be punished so severely, but I don’t think that just because a student commits actions out of school that they shouldn’t matter, if they involve people who go to school. If it affects people, it doesn’t matter where it’s done. A similar thing happened while I was in high school where a classmate of mine wrote demeaning things about a teacher on a website and got in trouble for it. So did other students who made threats against other students, especially in the wake of events like Columbine. If students couldn’t get in trouble for things they do out of school bounds, then people planning such events as that, or even just threatening to, couldn’t get in trouble for it! Being out of school doesn’t mean you’re safe from the law.
Absolutely. And his parents, the owners of the computer, sued for defamation of character. It’s time that brats were made accountable for their actions and parents weren’t afraid to discipline their kids.
i kinda feel as if it’s exactly like what kids do to each other that lead them to do something irrational. just instead f doing it to a kid, he did it to the principal.
no matter how silly it was, i bet the principal was still hurt and embarrassed at the fact that his students don’t like him.
I’m sorry, it’s one thing to make up nicknames or whatever for teachers you don’t like. But this? This crossed a line. Something should be done, and those parents aren’t doing anyone favors by allowing their kid to make such malicious jokes. I don’t think doing something like that should be tolerated.
yes. thats horrible
What he did could have been extremely harmful to the principal’s reputation, and job. It’s slander, and yes he should be expelled for saying something that could potentially have extreme consequences for the victim of his joke. It’s a lesson he needs to learn now, and not when he’s an adult.
@Asthma_is_Sexy - If someone set up a site for you on myspace with your picture and giving you a bad name you would probably persue legal action. I mean, potential employers, friends, family, everyone has access to myspace and they can search you by name.
Let’s look at some details of the site:
- identified him as the Hillside Middle School principal.
- “Cook’s general interests as “giving students anal”
- “jacking off in my office,”
- named his heroes as Michael Jackson, Adolph Hitler, and Saddam Hussein.
Is any of this believable? Seriously, what idiot would believe that such a site would be sincere and serious?
Expelled, then tar and feather him.
Don’t people understand parody? I’m sure no one who saw this would really believe it was the guys site. The principal needs to grow a thicker skin. School administrators seem to believe that they should be entitled to respect. I disagree. If you’re an idiot, you’re not entitled to respect just because of your title.
Nothing happens in a vacuum. I’m sure the fact that the principal wants to expel the kid says something about why the kid posted the site.
there is a difference between tradition and criminal slander
the parents have a choice – either take the expulsion and live with it, or be sued by the principal for libel. what the kid did was wrong and has no place in any type of argument that it was simply “humor”
On one hand I can safely say yes because he could have literally ruined the Principal’s life, on the other, he’s a kid and probably didn’t take everything into account because he’s a kid. A 2nd chance might be in order.
honestly, i think he should be punished, but not expelled. i mean, dude, come on. what a jerk; talking crap about the principal like that. can you say idiot? but since it didn’t really have much to do with the school, just the principal alone, i guess i’d say they should take less harsher action towards what he did.
i bet if the kid was a student in my school, he’d seriously get expelled. my school is extremely strict and does not tolerate this kind of behavior. sometimes being in a private school reeeally sucks. but oh well.harharhar.adios, amigos.
These parents have it right. The free speech of an EIGHTH grader needs to be protected. He is a special boy and his 1st amendment rights have been infringed!
This little whippersnapper has done nothing to deserve those rights, and uses them poorly. She should be expelled for a semester but it wont put the fear of God into his 13 year old ass.
“C’mon MAN! Whats the big deal?”
Have some more bottled water you little shit… Eighth grade will be the best two years of your life.
Its accessable from school (can be seen on the internet) – sorry… he’s stupid for putting it up so publically – he should get in trouble.
Of course. Any attorney could have a field day with this type of defamation.
That’s a little bit more than stuffing a potato in a car tailpipe. If an adult had done it to a child or another adult, it would likely be prosecuted; so it should be here.
This was too far for “normal mocking of teachers.” What if a student had made up a similar page for another student? I would hope that he would get more than just a slap on the wrist – even if that means expulsion. Can’t you be fired for making a page like this about you boss? When you asked if children should be swatted, someone mentioned that you wouldn’t get hit if you were in a job. So if you would get fired in a real job, shouldn’t you be expelled in school?
The school shouldn’t take action,THE PARENTS should kick his ass.And the principal can sue.
@Anastrophes_I_Love - by not taking any action, the principal being the head of an institution that has children in its charge wouldn’t be best served by such an accusation!
hell no, if a woman claims on a public website that a man raped her but he’s then vindicated in a court of law, and she goes on to plead the first, the damage to his reputation would probably be irreparably marred
He can make immature jokes with his friends all he wants. If he posts something on the internet, he’s publishing his statements and can be subject to a libel lawsuit.
Yes! Criminal charges should also be filed.
If it was a different situation, then maybe not. But in this case, definitely yes. Teachers get fired for doing things off-campus, why should students be any different. What this kid did was very serious and he needs to face the consequences. And really no wonder he did what he did with parents like that.
I’m sorry, but I don’t even know where people can get the idea that this is harmless fun. If someone took that seriously, that principal would be in a lot more trouble than just an expulsion. This isn’t a harmless joke. The kid is a douchebag, and he turned out that way because his parents are even bigger douchebags that probably did stuff like this when they were his age.
@huginn -
Seriously, even if the site couldn’t be taken seriously, how can you NOT see that this isn’t right? This isn’t some harmless children’s past time. It’s wrong, and that child deserves to be punished for it. All of your *facts* and reasons why you say it’s ok either makes you a cruel child yourself or the kind of person that would breed a child that would do something like that, and then be *ok* because mommy and daddy would say it was *harmless fun.*
I think the kid should be expelled or some punishment. Because other students will see it even the police and take action against it.
You already know i’m sour about this kind of stuff.. my incident at work where I put a picture of me at work on my myspace is getting me in trouble.. it shouldnt matter!! yeah, the kid is a douchebag for doing what he did.. he’s a jerky kid. Maybe the principal is really guilty of some things OR he just is using his power, like my bosses are. I dont see how anyone can regulate what you put on the internet..
No- I think a public apology, and some “Community Service” (and lots of it) would be a more suitable punnishment.
It happened in my school.
Only it was because of a “Xanga Hate Site.”
Oh well! I disagree with it, but it was a stupid thing to do. Damn kids.
<33
I think he should totally be expelled for that. Its a good lesson in real life! Do you think for a minute he wouldn’t be fired if he mocked his boss in a similar way?
The kid is an idiot. Defamanation of someones character by linking them to something of a criminal nature simply don’t go hand in hand with ‘off-site campus’ speech.
’nuff said…
omg, what is our country coming to if 13 year olds are talking like that? and why are 13 year olds on myspace…. the age should be 15 i believe..
its obvious that kids complain about their teachers etc outside of school, esp the ones they dont like.. but to make a myspace? that’s just low.. and the fact that the parents don’t seem to think its a big deal really shows what kind of household theyve got….anyways…. the kid deserves some kind of punishment.. maybe not expulsion… maybe just a lot of community service >.>
@Darkwing_Dragon - Actually, the ‘minimum age’ to get a myspace is 14. But you were close
If you can be expelled for something done off campus then we are a society like The USSR was. We have to be able to speak our minds somewhere.
sue him and his parents for libel. that’ll get them.
it’s still malicious harassment, whether on- or off-campus
Yes.
@CuteMami - Seriously, even if the site couldn’t be taken seriously, how can you NOT see that this isn’t right?
I don’t care whether or not it’s right. What it definately isn’t, is wrong. We are entitled to our freedom of speech whether that expression of sympatheis is carefully crafted with genteel language or a vitriolic with crude slang. Absent any real world concenquences, and I’ve argued there isn’t, the boy is entitled to his freedom of speech.
This isn’t some harmless children’s past time. It’s wrong, and that child deserves to be punished for it.
The only thing harmed is the principal’s feelings. This alone isn’t grounds for expulsion or punishment. Note that the principal’s name was never used on the site.
Yes, the child is being nasty. If the child is deservering punishment, the task of punishment falls to his parents (and not to anyone else).
All of your *facts* and reasons why you say it’s ok either makes you a cruel child yourself or the kind of person that would breed a child that would do something like that, and then be *ok* because mommy and daddy would say it was *harmless fun.*
Since you’ve provided no rebuttal to my arguments or position, I can’t take your change of me being a “child” as anymore than your subjective feel of my position. I happen to believe in civil liberties and fundamental rights in a free society. I would have liked to think that the good visitors of TheologianCafe do too.
@heyjuke - hell no, if a woman claims on a public website that a man raped her but he’s then vindicated in a court of law, and she goes on to plead the first, the damage to his reputation would probably be irreparably marred
Your example isn’t quite applicable to this case. Nothing of your scneario indicates that it may be fictitious or that it isnt’ serious.
If a woman claims on a public website that a man enjoys raping women ,that he’s from the planet Pluto, and admires Barney the purple dinnosaur would this be libel? What more, if no name was ever provided how could this parody be linked to the man by people who don’t know him already?
@raspootin - That’s a little bit more than stuffing a potato in a car tailpipe. If an adult had done it to a child or another adult, it would likely be prosecuted; so it should be here.
No d’oh.
The situation would be entirely different if the principal were to create a myspace site of his student with similar content. There are two additional factors: 1.) The possibility that the principal may be sexually preying upon the kid, and 2.) The questions the site would raise as the man’s qualification as an educator.
Neither 1.) or 2.) applies to the student parodying the principal.
@mizzshoez - there is a difference between tradition and criminal slander
Yeah: A sense of humor.
the parents are darn lucky the principle didnt sue for defamation!
The kid deserves what he got and should be happy the principal, or even the school district, isn’t suing him for libel.
Yes, students often make fun of and joke about school administrators outside of school, but to my knowledge it’s never gone as far as making a profile on a social networking site pooling all of those things onto it and inviting people to join.
The parents are being ridiculous if they think he doesn’t deserve his expulsion.
I don’t think the “off school campus” argument really holds any water in this case. It was made to reflect the school and the principal, so even though it happend physically off campus, it does correlate directly with the school.
I don’t know if being expelled it too harsh a punishment or not. At first I want to say he shouldn’t be expelled because we have that whole free speech thing so you should be able to say whatever you want about your teachers, or anyone else for that matter. On the other hand, he set up the account as if he were the principal, and child molestation is a damn serious charge. It wasn’t just stating that he disliked the principal, it was doing something that had the potential to ruin the principal’s reputation and get him in serious trouble.
All things considered, the school probably made the right choice.
No, public schools have no right to punish students for thier actions outside of school. However, what he did was still slander, and he should’ve been punished for it by the police.
This goes beyond making fun of teachers off-hours. It is more like libel with some pretty serious potential to irreparably harm someone’s reputation.
Believe me, I’m no bleeding heart liberal, but had this been the other way around, someone would be filing a lawsuit.
Even more importantly, the fact that his parents are defending this kind of behavior shows why he’s engaging in it in the first place.
I think that this should get the kid expelled and more. Legal action should be taken, and would if he was older. Too bad he’s fricken 13.
And I’d personally like to slap his parents. What kind of assholes are they?!
He shouldn’t be expelled, but if I were the principal, you had better believe I would be suing the family for defacement of character–or whatever the legal term may be. We can’t leave the punishment up to the parents, because the parents think it was funny. This kid needs to be taught right and wrong.
its one thing to talk bad about someone but another thing to possibly ruin their career and send them to prison…
@huginn - I didnt state that charges should be filed but in this day and age, thats a little hit or miss, is it in bad taste yeah, but, its a kid and you cant falt a kid for doing what we have all done but there is a line, bad taste off color neither are illeagl or punishable by expulsion. How about the case of online bullying gone to far were even a parent was involved in the online bullying.I think what I was saying is this drawing a dickhead on a pic of a principal and saying hes a pediphile are two different things albeit neither are illeagl.
and like most things its opinion….
@mizzshoez - but there is a line, bad taste off color neither are illeagl or punishable by expulsion.
Yup yup. I’d agree that this definately falls under the category.
How about the case of online bullying gone to far were even a parent was involved in the online bullying.
Then I would say it would depend on the circumstances of the bullying.
Name calling alone isn’t a crime. I know I’ve certainly made fun of plenty of xanga users here over the years.
I think what I was saying is this drawing a dickhead on a pic of a principal and saying hes a pediphile are two different things albeit neither are illeagl.
The boy could fairly be sued; but as I’ve argued, circumstances of this particular case makes it clear that the principal is only being made fun of (with no chances of him being an actual pedophile).
and like most things its opinion….
Value judgement of the boy’s action is inherently subjective. The legal and civil rights framework of this case is objective.
YES…especially for something of this seriousness. If he had made a sight and just made fun of his clothing or something silly fine, but when you start messing with people’s reputation in terms of child molestation, its NOT funny or acceptable at all. Besides the ramifications are off campus.
@huginn - right on
yes. Even if it is considered free speech it is also defamation and libel under legal laws. What’s even sadder is parents who try to justify their kids’ wrongful (or stupid) actions instead of letting their kids learn from what the consequences of their actions.
Its called liable, kids.
Kick the asshole out XD
For those who think this boy’s free speech should be protected, what should happen to protect the teacher/principal from being lied about, etc. Something like this happened to my brother in law. A student took his picture and labeled it Mr. Molester. Even though my bil knew the truth, it really bothered him that these students did this and thought it was funny. So it’s all nice that we want to protect our children, but I do believe adults have the right to be protected, too.
btw, I just found out my dd was scratching another kid. You better believe there was a lot of talk at home about respect, honoring others, and such. We got home and she went immediately for her nail clippers. It is important to me that my children grow up understanding that each human is sacred to God and we have no right to tear them apart…whether with our hands or our words. I cannot believe parents who defend their children’s bad choices.
Man, people talk out of ignorance and don’t realize just how stupid it makes them look.
“Libel” is written – “Slander” is verbal. However, to be either there has to be some assertion that what’s said is true.
If I just say “Dan jacks off while posting on his Xanga,” that’s not libel because I could mean it as a joke. If I falsely assert that Dan “told me he jacks off while doing his Xanga” then I’ve libeled Dan.
And let me say for the record that I have no idea what Dan is doing with his hands while on Xanga.
Kids making fun of teachers/principals is one thing. Impersonating them online is another story. It is, in a sense, identity theft.
@morbidFRAGRANCE - You’re funny.
malicious harassment aside, there is also the matter of deformation of character that could be applied whether or not the incident was on campus or not. it could also affect the principles career and have many other consequenses the kid didn’t take into account. yes, the kid deserves expulsion, unless of course he would rather have detention with the subject of his prank…………….
Perhaps expulsion is a bit harsh, but in any case, what this kid was inexcusable.
Yeah, plus his parents should be smacked around a bit for failing to teach their kid to be a decent human being.
i think the student should get into trouble because that is slander against a person. unless he has absolute truth that the pricipal is a child molestor. the principal could have gotten fired or any other number of things because of this myspace page. the students need to think before they do something so stupid. (comeing from a student)
No. He shouldn’t be expelled for it. Instead he should be prosecuted to the full extent of THE LAW for harassing an educator that way. Not only that his parents should be sued for defemation (sp) of character and harassment.
Lawyers and law student check in…is that a prosecutable case?
@Momentkeeper - refer to ronwlawhouston’s post (8 posts above this one).
I hate reading the parents’ stance. It’s like they’re trying to act as if he did nothing wrong.
I wonder if he could get charged with anything if he weren’t a student. If not, that hurts the principal’s case imo, though ultimately it mostly hangs on what the books say.
The thing is, on myspace, if he didn’t come right out and say that it wasn’t the actual guy, then some people would have no idea. Some parents would have no idea.
It’s one thing to say things between friends and family and make fun of people that way – but to put it online where anyone can see is a completely different story.
Besides, kids can access myspace from school – so who’s to say it was actually off-campus?
Someone in my high school did the same thing. Fuckin’ hilarious. It’s just a harmless joke.
@hum__hallelujah - Besides, kids can access myspace from school – so who’s to say it was actually off-campus?
So what if the kids can access it from school?
The actual access of the myspace site from school would not be of the profile-creator’s fault. If people access the site, it would be on their own volition. It would be no different from a random student voluntarily accessing a web page that may be of distraction to the learning environment.
What other people do with the myspace site is not of the myspace-creator’s responsiblity.
I think that it is time that people begin to deal with the consequences of their actions. Allowing someone to deface someone so publicly and get away with it is slander…and…illegal. I think that the parents, rather than defending what their child did, should down and teach him what the real world is like. He may have his parents to protect him now but when he has to deal with people on a daily basis without having the wing of his parents under which to hide…how will he handle himself?
@jada_marnew - Kids making fun of teachers/principals is one thing. Impersonating them online is another story. It is, in a sense, identity theft.
Here’s a youtube clip of Will Ferrel imprsonating a George W. Bush on SNL.
IDENTITY THEFT!!!!
LIBEL!!!!
MALICIOUS HARRASSMENT!!!!!
DEFAMING OF CHARACTER!!!!!!!!!!
DESTRUCTION OF REPUTATION!!!!!!!
THE END OF THE WORLD!!!!!!!!!!!!
@snoebunni20 - Allowing someone to deface someone so publicly and get away with it is slander…and…illegal. Allowing someone to deface someone so publicly and get away with it is slander…and…illegal.
Here’s another youtube clip of Will Ferrel getting away with “slander.” I wonder how much jail time Mr. Ferrel served for this one.
This goes beyond the typical complaining about teachers so he should be punished for it since something like that could ruin a person’s life even with the hint of this guy being a pedophile.
@huginn -
That is parody…and legal. There is a difference. What the kid did was slander because it could affect the ability of the principle to find a job later on if not proven false. There is a difference.
Sure, it’s funny if it’s a small joke, but this was not. The child’s words are not something to be jokingly said. The internet is not the private place we think it is (even though we often access it in our rooms at home while alone).
Definitely charges for libel are warranted. Expulsion should be enforced barring an agreement between the parents and the school system for a punshiment that either the school or the parents must carry out (and shoulc be verified).
@snoebunni20 - That is parody…and legal. There is a difference. What the kid did was slander because it could affect the ability of the principal to find a job later on if not proven false. There is a difference.
I’m arguing that there is little difference. It should be clear in both the myspace account and in the SNL parody that the depictions in question are ficticious and facetious.
No adult, and certainly no actual child molester, would openly advocate his own perverse habits. The semantics of the site “Your Princeypal” should further tip off the viewer as to the site frivolity. To top it off, would you suppose any real middle school principal to admire Michael Jackson, Adolph Hitler, and Saddam Hussein?
Anyone viewing the myspace account would realize right away that it’s some student’s sick joke. Anyone viewing the myspace account would think to the possiblity of a fake-site and conclude beyond a reasonable doubt, that the site in question is indeed a fake-site.
Also note that Principal’s name was never mentioned on the myspace account. With this, the only people who woudl actually match the picture and the site’s job description to a real person are the people who actually know the school principal.
they should let that principle give the kid swats! lol
Nope. He shouldn’t be expelled because it was done off-campus and a school principal should either have more self-esteem and be less of a “cry baby” than that, or find a more suiting job. Students are always going to make fun of him, just as they are for all students, but if it doesn’t hurt you physically and you aren’t having a mental break down over something that you should have expected when you went into the job, then it should be handled like any other out of school problem. In other words, the child’s parent SHOULD take some sort of disciplinary action (becuase their 13 year old was making sexual references online) and myspace should delete the account, as it is an infringement of its Code of Conduct.
@huginn -
Regardless…I think that it is wrong on one side that the child cared so little about the consequences his posting might have on others. Because of the society that we live in today whether or not it is OBVIOUSLY false…it needs to be researched. Maybe if there wasn’t child porn, child molesting, raping and several other problems in society it wouldn’t be such a big deal. On the other side no one should be able to deface someone like that. There is a line between joking and what this kid did. I also find it wrong that his parents, in defending him, condone it. What child is going to get expelled from school for that and then have his parents saying that the punishment is to harsh. The parents should be disciplining the child and making him aware of the fact that the world out there will not condone such behavior. However, that in itself is another problem in that, parents are no longer legally allowed to discipline their children without it looking like abuse. Perhaps the problem lies both with the child, his parents and society as a whole?
No.
he shouldn’t get expelled,but he needs to be punished.The student went to far .This is not a little ”teasing” this is disrespect and could have soiled an innocent man’s name
No, it’s off campus.Kids routinely make fun of the staff at schools. If every kid that did it got suspended, the schools would be empty
I don’t think expelling the student is going to stop him from pulling pranks. The parents and the school should work out a punishment that allows the student to understand how his actions affects others. Any suggestions?
for something like that, yes. he’s basically ruined his principal’s reputation. that should have consequences. his parents are ridiculous if they think that’s okay.
@Momentkeeper - Prosecutable? As in criminally? No way. It’s clearly not a crime. Probably the only actionable item on the page is the allegation of sex with the other principal. That would only give rise to a civil case. However, if you look at the totality of the page, it doesn’t look like it was intended to be true. It just looks like a tasteless parody.
It clearly looks like a kid who didn’t care for his principal too much and decided to tease him. Not a crime and probably not something you could sue over.
I do believe he should be expelled for it.If it hadn’t trickled back into the school system I would say no, but it is has so he must suffer the punishment for it.
A severe punishment is in order … in this decade, such libel (or is it slander) is potentially career-and-life devestating. Whether the kid should be expelled or just lose his computer privileges until he’s 18…I dunno.
@snoebunni20 - Regardless…I think that it is wrong on one side that the child cared so little about the consequences his posting might have on others.
I’m not condoning the child’s action. I’m defending his rights towards it.
Because of the society that we live in today whether or not it is OBVIOUSLY false…it needs to be researched.
I guess our common sense is a bit different.
Maybe if there wasn’t child porn, child molesting, raping and several other problems in society it wouldn’t be such a big deal.
My position is independent of the content of the boy’s parody of the principal. If the boy, however, joked about shooting up his school buddies, the case would have to be looked at a lot differently.
On the other side no one should be able to deface someone like that.
I guess the drawback of a free society is that everyone gets these rights– even idiots. The KKK has just as much a right to the freedom of speech as the red cross. Being libertarian-ish, I believe in rights first– independent of any value judgement.
…I also find it wrong that his parents, in defending him, condone it… However, that in itself is another problem in that, parents are no longer legally allowed to discipline their children without it looking like abuse. Perhaps the problem lies both with the child, his parents and society as a whole?
Ha. I look at this issue entirely differently. I could care less about how parents discipline their kids. To me, this issue is clear: A personally offended Principal overstepping the bounds of his power and jurisdiction.
I think teachers suffer enough junk as it is. Kick the kid out and teach others a lesson, too. Child molesting is a serious charge. That kid is an idiot, truly.
It didn’t occur in/at school, at a school function or school-related event and therefore isn’t a school issue. I could see the principal taking legal action and suing the kid for slander, but suspending him wasn’t in his right.
Something almost similar happened at my school. One student posted a comment saying that he was going to kill another kid. The principal at my school found out before the kid whose myspace got commented did, both kids were suspended, and not allowed to do anything besides school for the rest of the year. Even the kid who hadn’t had a chacne to delete the comment before anyone else saw it was not allowed to play in the basketball teams championship game, participate in the school play or even be in the staff and alumni vs. 8th grade basketball game
saying things about the principal is one thing, but committing actions such as creating a myspace account is another. it’s as good as putting signs up all over the school portraying the principal as a child molester.
umm first of all, i think this 13-year-old should get a life first before hanging around myspace…
Defamation of character is wrong, but expulsion seems a bit over the top. What about all of us that express anger in our blogs?
i could see if the guy sued him or something of the sort, but i mean, it WAS outside of school…
hahaha they set up a fake profile of my principle too.
i don’t think he should be expelled, but punished by the law for defamation of character.
you always have an interesting topic in your blogs!
My gosh. I can’t believe the kid did that. I am a bit shock.
I believe its quite a hard decision to have the student expelled for he did something off-campus. I guess it really depends on what it is and how bad the situation is?
but the kid that made a myspace like that deserves a punishment, but expelling can be a bit harsh?
its hard to decide. wow.
This is so wrong on many levels. Pick a floor, get off the elevator, and instruct your children and grandchildren on proper respect for their elders and leaders. Don’t hand over complete control of the computer, telephone, television, cell phone, and anything else that might in some way encourage bad behavior.
Of course he should be expelled. >:( He practically humiliated the principal with those remarks.
Hey, kids say stuff all the time but to post something this outrageously and have the parents justify the kids behavior, that is very surprising!
Expelled may be extreme, in school suspension being the janitor’s point man, make the kid scrub walls, paint lockers and pick up trash. Have the kid post a retraction saying he wasn’t using his head,make him regret creating this myspace by embarrassing him. That would be my recommendation if it was my son.
Yes. At least this, because it’s not “omg makin funz of teachers,” but it’s complete libel. Dang.
Or at least, if he isn’t expelled, a good, long suspension.
Making fun of teachers is one thing: What this boy did was set the teacher up for federal offense and crimmal action, therefore it’s a crime.
And the paretns should be punished too. They are teaching him 1. that he doesn’t have to respect authority and 2. that he doesn’t have to own up to his mistakes.
Sounds like a future asshole in the making. ~ L
Punished, yes, but not necessarily expelled. If the site did no harm to anyone, and was taken down, and the kid did something good for the school as part of his punishment, then I see no real reason for an expulsion.
If he goes to a public school, then no, he shouldn’t be expelled. Smacked around a few times, yes, but not expelled. If it’s a private school, they can do whatever they want to him.
@huginn - You assume too much. Firstly that you know the intent. Assume both individuals have the same intent if either has the intent to malign the other (assuming one could prove that) it would be a legally prosecuted case. If the intent peice is not there, the principal should still lose his job for something in such bad taste and poor judgement. This is the only place where the two paths divert from equality; punishment. The kid should be suspended and it should impact his educational standing. (I digress) So many people will argue against this thinking. The kid is not mentally impaired, he knew what he was doing and should be punished appropriately. This is how grossly out of proportion people treat children. It’s beyond me how people can defend indefensible behavior. We handicap our educators from appropriately dealing with these types of situations, overly scrutinize them when they do the right thing and let the kid off the hook all too often. When mitigating circumstances are there they should be accounted for and factored in. There aren’t any that I can see in this case. It was nothing more than a purely mean and harmful behavior and it should be addressed with a firm and fair consequence.
If he were anything older then 18…yes. Then it becomes his fault. He’s a minor and should be sat down and corrected as to why this is inappropriate and what accepted forms of ‘freedom of speech’ are. The constitution is set to protect peoples rights and IF he were culpable for his actions he should be punished. As it stands I think the PARENTS are the ones who should be recieving the punitive actions.
Freedom of speech should not be a rationalization to being cruel. The fact that his parents are justifying this just goes to show you that this world has taken a wrong turn regarding morality and the difference between right and wrong. Sure, kids make fun of school staff, but that is taking it a little too far. What happened to passing notes and funny little drawings in class? oh wait i forgot. it’s all technology based. *sighs* I guess we[our children and ourselves] are too desensitized anymore to really think that something like this wouldn’t be considered inapropriate.
*steps off soapbox*
wow, what a sensitive situation! i think he should be expelled. it creates a fine line between teacher/student.
my friend derrick did the exact same thing. it’s not even an issue in my opinion. kids have a sense of humour. it was clearly in fun. i seriously doubt that anybody took it seriously
It is defamation of character. What a schmuck! LOL
that’s really bad. I dont’ mind the harshness, but what precedent? I wonder. Perhaps his parents would prefer a criminal court? Maybe the Principal should go for that one.
We all had mean names and dirty songs about our teachers. However, portraying him to be a child molestor could be grounds for a lawsuit on behalf of the principal. Its diffrent than calling Mr Schmitdhburger Mr Shitburger. Taken the wrong way, that myspace could keep him from jobs, etc.
The kid should be punished in some way.
But, I guess the severity kinda depends on how serious the myspace was.
If it was something that could have been taken seriously by someone who didn’t know that it wasn’t set up by the principal himself (which it didn’t sound like), then it should be more seriously punished.
If it was more over-the-top, pissy whining massive overexaggeration, I don’t think it should be punished as harshly, but it still should be punished in some way.
It is libel no matter which way you look at it, it’s just the matter of whether it’s believable.
this is a hard question we’re facing a lot these days. my answer – no. why should the school be allowed to punish you for something you did in your daily life [outside of school]. it’s giving the education system too much power if they can punish you for everything you do in your life.
nooooooooooooooo no no
that’s just mean. but well i could actually understand that (being in school in all)
Yes.
He is not only talking bad about the principal – he is messing with the man’s career. Anyone who does NOT know that this was a fake could misconstrue the information and decide that maybe there is a reason for this and decide that maybe the principal could be doing something bad. Gets worse from there.Believe me. I’m in education. The webpage is enough for someone to go on a fact finding mission and this pricipal to lose his job or even his good name.
yes
can’t the principal sue for libel? so expelling that brat was pretty darn nice…
Depends on if you think a principal is a public figure and therefore subject to satire. If he’s not, then the student was libeling him, and the school would be justified taking action.
Yes, the principal will be held accountable for what the student said, whether it was on campus or not. There is no doubt that the principle went under investigation if the student was claiming that he was doing these things to his students. The principal could get arrested for accusations like that! Of course all principles get made fun of, but not all principals are subject to accusations that could get them fired and never hired again simply because a student didn’t like him/her.
Yes, that kid should be punished. It is libel, even if it was done off of school property. His parents are idiots for thinking that it was a harmless prank…I’m sorry, but if some stupid kid did that to me, I would be pissed off. Teachers and especially administrators, put in more hours than they are paid for. That is retarded to think that he should not be punished for it, and I think expulsion is definitely deserved in this case, because that kid is responsible for putting the principal’s reputation on the line.
What a douchebag!! Is the principal charging him with harassment? Can he? Not sure about expelling the kid since it’s outside of school, but something needs to be done.
Absolutely he should get expelled. You’re impersonating someone, defaming them, basically accusing them of criminal activities and all with the attitude that you’re invincible, untouchable, because its through the “safety” of the internet. Kids have been expelled for far less.
His parents should be alerted and put in charge of punishment.
ahhh what a prat!!!
ABSOLUELY! This kid needs to learn that actions such as these have consequences. If he doesn’t learn it now, he never will. No wonder the kid is as unruly as he is…look at his parents! They prop him up on a pedestal and aren’t holding him responsible for his actions either!
No wonder kids have no respect for authority figures anymore. Damned parents!
isnt that considered slandering?
Despite him being off campus at the time of writing it, if he had been a teenager, he could’ve been tried for slander and defamation of character. It’s a serious crime that could have had severe consequences for the principal. It’s one thing to write jokes about the principal in the bathroom stalls at school, but it’s another entirely to post it where anyone in the world could see it
I dont know what to say that is a serious offense to some one the boy is only 13 where did he learn those type of words from